06.22.08
Review: “Cat Dancers”
“Cat Dancers” tells the true story of Ron and Joy Holiday and Chuck Lizza, successful dancers and show people who forged masterful careers in a world that regarded them as outsiders from the get go. Unsentimental and even-handed, the complexities of love and the, or so society makes us believe, unnatural bonds between humans and animals are explored in the context of a sympathetic portrait of life in show business, and the reality of the situation, while dealt with tastefully, is one of the most tragic stories I have ever seen, ominous from the start, yet uplifting in its arguments as well.
Ron Holiday is narrates the film by means of a running interview, and he is now seventy-years-old, well beyond his sell by date, in terms of the dancing world’s requirements. From the start, he gives an honest and unflinching look into a story told entirely in his own way, at his own pace, and with his candid demeanour, it is nothing but mesmerising.
He starts at the beginning, not just the beginning of this particular story but at the beginning of several stories which all eventually intertwine in a manner so reasoned it seems as though fate had planned it to end up in the way it does all along. With the vagueness of the order of his reflection of past events, you are never certain exactly when the events took place, but the focus should not be on when they happened, but rather how and why, and that is exactly what we are told.
We become aware of how Ron and Joy met, and that there was never a sexual attraction between, the fact that they were kids has nothing to do with it, it was more of a bother-and-sister type bond, formed out of a shared set of hopes and dreams. Both wanted nothing more than to become famous dancers, and dreamt of dancing in their childhood playground, Radio City Music Hall.
After teaching various techniques of dance, mainly ballet, in Florida, the couple met Tennessee Williams and from then on, their dreams became sparkling reality – they were booked to play at Radio City Music Hall, in a sold out show no less. When tedium and old age set in, being thirty-something in the world of dance is considered “old,” Ron started thinking about calling it quits. Until he had a light-bulb-above-the-head moment, and came up with the idea of integrating wild animals into their act, particularly wild and exotic cats. With the help of their friend, William Holden, they got hold of a black leopard. Things just kept getting better and better for them, and eventually ended up with a whole lot more rare and enticing animals dancing by their side – the popularity of this allowed for them to hire runaway circus worker Chuck, which proved to be every much a business deal as it was a romantic bonus. Work and love all wrapped up in a frowned upon ménage à trois.
As interesting as the dancing with the ferocious felines must have been, it is less interesting in the film – but that is not what the film is about, much to my satisfaction. It is much more a personal story, laced in controversial intimacy which is never fully explored, but obviously, the divisive details were toned down so that the doc would achieve a more conventional and accepting audience, which I don’t think has been achieved internationally.
Suspense is warranted from the start, mainly because we know that Ron is most probably the only living member of the romantically linked and wedding ring, not an official legal marriage but a bonding of souls, bound trio, as we never get input from the other two members. When the fine points are dished, nothing can prepare you – not the clever use of imagery of the cats, in their moments of adorability or evilness, and when the emotional impact hits, it strikes hard.
Present day footage, detailing Ron’s loneliness with only two of his cats still alive, and archival footage are woven together to great effect, contrasting the good times, the bad times, the blinding intensity of the spotlight and the portentous quality of what may come after the final curtain call.
Production values are solid, especially the musical score – particularly over the archive footage of the shows, and the film says so much when nothing is vocalised at all, you can sense all there is to feel just by letting go and allowing the pure tragedy of reality to wash over you. Overall, “Cat Dancers” is an effective documentary that has never seen a theatrical release, but if and when one gets the chance to see the film, you won’t regret a second of it.
Fatac Rating: ***
Cat Dancers. Directed by Harris Fishman. Cinematography by Amanda Micheli. Music by String Theory and Peter Salett. Edited by Alexis Spraic. Featuring: Ron Holiday. Running Time: 75 minutes. Rating: 3 out of 5 stars. [B-]
Justin said,
June 22, 2008 at 11:36 pm
This one really screwed me up, had me crying and everything. I DONT CRY.
Nick Plowman said,
June 22, 2008 at 11:55 pm
Me too, at least I cried in the privacy of my own home ;)
Jessica said,
November 29, 2008 at 1:35 am
Yes I agree with you!
Britta said,
December 16, 2008 at 7:46 am
I bawled my eyes out over this documtary
Nick Plowman said,
December 16, 2008 at 11:41 am
Apparently is was on HBO on the 13th of December…ugh, if I had known, I would have urged some people to not forget to watch it. Darn.
bob said,
December 20, 2008 at 11:38 am
he put two of his cats asleep???!!!!! NOT COOL
chris said,
December 20, 2008 at 2:57 pm
I watched the documentry. Wow………..heres the kicker. I actually worked with all three of them in 93 in Toronto during rehearsals for Garden brothers circus. I hung out with Ron and chuck daily. I knew all the cats by name. I walked jupiter on a leash and somewhere have a picture of jupiter wearing my baseball cap. jupiter was my favorite cat of the bunch. Long story short. I got fired……..said my goodbye and not to sound gay……….got the most memerable and meaningful hug from ron. And that was the last time I saw them. everything that happened after that I found out about tonight………..15 years later………..by total fluke. yeah………this one fucked me right up.
Jey Gerard said,
December 20, 2008 at 8:15 pm
JUPITER IS THE MAN!
Steven St Croix said,
December 20, 2008 at 8:18 pm
This Trio of Fucking Weirdo’s had it coming for trying to raise wild animals. Fuck You Ron!!!!!!!
Tray said,
December 20, 2008 at 8:33 pm
But WHY did he put the last two cats down? Couldn’t he give them to a wild cat rescue? Why would he cut short their lives? Can anyone offer an opinion? It’s killing me!
Susan said,
December 20, 2008 at 11:07 pm
This film is about the complexity of relationships between humans and animals. Therein lies your answer Tracy.
The reason I believe he put them down was that he saw them as his children. No one could take better care of them or love them as much as he did. I believe Ron felt that they would not get the same attention or love that he gave them if he handed them over to a big cat rescue.
So imagine if you will, your son kills his mother and then is killed by the police. That’s the way Ron saw it and that’s how I interpreted it. I think that’s why it made me cry a lot. Very tragic.
Melissa said,
December 20, 2008 at 11:11 pm
It is extremely difficult to find somewhere to place exotic animals. It is also extremely difficult to find a place that will provide the level of care that you desire for your animal(s) too. Additionally it is extremely expensive to keep them and the ability to acquire permits can also be a challenge. The documentary certainly doesn’t do this part of Ron’s life justice. I felt the same way at first because they glossed over it all but I’ve been in similar situations with wild animals as well as domestic ones. I’ve killed myself looking for placements and the guilt is horrible when what you want is not possible. You start off thinking that there is a wonderful place for any animal but the reality sometimes is much different and you find that placing them can even be your worst nightmare. So I have to know that that must have really been another horrible thing for Ron to have to put the animals down. You have to know that by watching how well they were cared for and knowing what devotion it takes to care for them 24/7. So if he put them down it was the best decision he could make under the circumstances. I applaud him the courage to have done so and hope that he can let any guilt go. That doesn’t mean I endorse keeping wild animals or using them for performing.
As for the white tiger being inbred. That may be but when animals sense a weakness their instincts take over.. My daycare dogs will all go for any other dog that hurts itself and starts crying even though seconds before they were all having a great time. Predation rule #1 is go for the weakness. If Joy was compromised in anyway then it is not abnormal for a predator to strike. A depressed mentally and physically person who is drunk to boot as well as shaky on her feet has a huge time square sign over her head that says go for it…regardless of the relationship they had when she was not grieving for her loss. The woman who was killed in San Fransisco in 2000 by the Italian mastiffs was killed due to the same thing. She was compromised because she was terrified of the dogs which made her a target for instincts that are programmed to capitalize on the slightest weakness.
kelly said,
December 20, 2008 at 11:37 pm
this is a said story . Where is ron today? Did he go to Thailand?
Gary said,
December 21, 2008 at 12:05 am
I found the story Ron told deeply moving. It was an extremely heartfelt account of his life with Joy, Chuck and the animals.
After watching the story I realized that I was wishing that Ron still found some peace and comfort in the rest of his life.
Chris said,
December 21, 2008 at 12:13 am
This was excellent. I was mesmerized. I understand the era. The contrast, amazing
chris said,
December 21, 2008 at 12:42 am
Weird is too loose a word. Nice people…………but really freaky.
girard d. hall said,
December 21, 2008 at 3:03 am
As to the feelings I felt as I watched this mesmerising documentary, it left me in some sort of state of mild shock or something. I can’t stop thinking about it this next day.
A thing we should not do and I keep catching myself ‘doing’ it…..that is, asking ‘WHY’?
Scarlet said,
December 21, 2008 at 4:08 am
This was a really touching story but very sad also :’-( Ron I hope you get all the Love you deserve when you get to Thailand.
Jill said,
December 21, 2008 at 4:16 am
I saw this last night on HBO and it was like a train wreck….I just could not stop watching. What a story, what a character, what a life. It was interesting and you just had to watch to see how it all turned out.
Ali said,
December 21, 2008 at 6:35 am
I just watched Cat Dancers from start to finish (had DVRed it), and immediately turned to the Net to find more. I thought it was a compelling story, and a tragic one. The hostile comments attacking Ron for his decisions to put the cats down sadden me as much as the fact that he had to put the cats down.
It’s obvious he loved the cats very much. He stated in the documentary that he, Joy and Chuck had made a pact that the cats would never end up in a compound. Exotic animal rescues vary in quality and legitimacy as much as pet rescues do. Since these cats were not wild, and had been raised from a very early age in very close contact with humans, it’s likely that any big cat rescue situation would have been misery for them. They would have been apart from the last remaining human family they had left, confused by the presence of other big cats, and even in the best of rescues they simply wouldn’t have had the intense, one-on-one care they received from Ron.
I can only presume that he made the euthanasia decision based upon quality of life issues. Also, it’s not like there is an exotic animal rescue on every corner. They’re kind of hard to find, and the ones I’m familiar with are maxed out. Zoos can’t take cats that have been raised in close contact with humans, either. Bear in mind the man’s age as well. How many 70-year-olds do you know who can handle the demands of handling tigers on a daily basis? I have no doubt that the decision to euthanize the cats caused Ron the same type of unhealable (not a word, technically, but I think it’s apt) pain as losing Chuck, Joy and Jupiter so violently. I personally don’t agree with keeping exotic animals as pets, or with using them in entertainment shows, but I don’t think that Ron, Joy or Chuck were bad people. Nor do I think Joy or Chuck “had it coming.” Theirs was an unusual relationship, yes, but their lives were filled with love for each other and for the cats they raised. I hope with all my heart that Ron is able to achieve his dream of going to live in Thailand. I also hope that he will find some peace.
Jill said,
December 21, 2008 at 7:18 pm
This documentary haunts me. It’s a shame that so many people are focused on the trio arrangement, because this is first and foremost a love story, and to me that’s what shone through. However misguided Ron, Joy, and Chuck’s work was, their love for these animals was clear and unassailable. In doing some reading to try to get some other perspectives on this story, I found out a couple of interesting things. Big Cat Rescue has some not-flattering things to say about Amazing Exotics, the place that took in Ron’s big cats after he closed the Cat Dancers ranch. He may have thought this was some kind of cat Eden, but to other people it was far from that. Also, it seems that the Tiger Temple in Thailand, which is the place Ron wants to go, also is under the watch of animal rights activists and has been accused of mistreatment of its cats as well.
It’s difficult to separate out what’s truth from what’s just axe-grinding on the one hand, or misguided love on the other hand. But no matter which is the truth, and I suspect both perspectives are, this is one hell of a haunting story. And while Chuck, Ron, and Joy’s relationship might not be what you or I might want, it worked for them. And I can’t imagine the pain Ron must still feel at so many losses.
Steven St Croix said,
December 21, 2008 at 9:23 pm
These animals belong in a jungle in Africa…not some freak’s backyard in Florida. Fuck you Ron!!!
Evan Stone said,
December 21, 2008 at 9:29 pm
This is not a tragic story at all. These animals belong in their natural environment in the wilderness. They should be roaming the plains of africa tearing other animal’s heads off. If Ron had half a brain he would have left them there and maybe Chuck and Joy’s heads wouldnt have been torn off.
Nick Plowman said,
December 21, 2008 at 9:31 pm
Um, I would say the animals have a better chance of surviving in Florida than Africa, where they would be poached and their skins would be sold on the black market. That’s just my opinion.
Evan Stone said,
December 21, 2008 at 9:57 pm
It is their NATURAL HABITAT. It is not up to us to decide their fate. Would you like it if someone picked you up out of your house and threw you in a cage against your will.
kelli said,
December 21, 2008 at 10:25 pm
call me evil if you want to, but i believe ron had something to do with joy and chuck’s death. too convenient that jupiter did something…he was too jealous of chuck.
karma strikes said,
December 22, 2008 at 7:18 pm
the first thing that came to my mind is…karma. I’m surprised noone else noticed this. joy and ron apparently were very religious but what do they do? they disrespect their marriage which is considered to be a sacred bond by their religion, or any religion for that matter – and literally and figuratively add a “third loop” to their wedding ring.
so they’re just one big happy family aren’t they. 2 dads, 1 mom, and lots of “children”. only thing is the children happen to be wild cats.
how does it end – mom’s head almost get’s cut off by one of their beloved “babies”. her blood splashed across dad’s face. after dad #2 and mom are taken away, the rest of the “babies” are taken away.
sure, this was a love story. when the gift of love is abused and misused.
Astrid said,
December 22, 2008 at 11:21 pm
This was a touching and loving documentary.
It touched me deeply, the love Ron showed for his Cats as well as the two people in his life.
Mamie Watts said,
December 22, 2008 at 11:24 pm
The ending to this story is very mysterious, I am not sure the cats or Joy were treated right in the end….
Dorothy said,
December 23, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Kelli, maybe you are not do evil for thinking that…..how come Ron didn’t kill himself after that? If he were so despondent, I am surprised that he talks about Thailand rather than suicide. Trajic story, for all involved. But Ron seems to be the ‘ringleader” of all events, including the end.
KP said,
December 23, 2008 at 3:39 pm
I don’t feel sorry for any of them. Being attacked is one of their occupational hazzards. I watched the show and wanted to change the channel the whole time, but I didn’t. Not sure why. This is right up there with the Croc Hunter. Wild animals are just that, wild. Leave them alone. Eventually the animal will do what is natural to it and attack.
nunya bidness said,
December 23, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Good call stone and karma. This was neither tragic nor touching. These poor animals were kept in chain link enclosures w/ concrete floors.I’m no card-carrying member of PETA or anything, but that is wrong. When these animals kill their HANDLERS (not mommies or daddies), it is right and natural. These people are dead because they had no idea what they were doing. They were magicians for crisesakes. Even lifelong fully trained animal handlers get attacked and killed by their “babies”. These amateurs had no business owning these animals. Weirdos.
tammy G said,
December 23, 2008 at 10:52 pm
I went thur every feeling and some i didn’t even know I had. I feel so sad but Love in what Ron did,he has to live with all of what he went thur.I can only dream of being strong enough to live after living and seeing what he did.I have so many feeling for and about him. I just want to tell him that if anyone looks down at him it only because they could never have what he did. Good Luck with what ever you do in life
A Big Fan for life
shmitt said,
December 24, 2008 at 7:49 am
he killed them both.
damon said,
December 24, 2008 at 8:12 am
wow……talk about weird.
damon said,
December 24, 2008 at 8:14 am
2 bad tigers dont live in africa guys
koco said,
December 24, 2008 at 11:12 am
how can people judge? hummm. I believe we need to respect people believes. This is a story and he is just sharing his own story a sad one can we have empathy…
There are countries where people married animals – other countries where people married more than one person… why we need to punish someone..?
Ron I hope you can keep couping.
lina said,
December 24, 2008 at 11:39 am
This story starts out so cool in the beginning: Two kids, Ron and Joy, dream of moving to NYC and becoming dancers – and they do it! One minute they are unknown and broke then it’s the stage, travel, limo, major glamour!
Then they hit a crisis point – they are getting too old to dance and they can’t afford to retire so they need to do something to keep the act exciting. The cat thing was a great gimmick but what a huge risk! Nevertheless, they make it work and seem to be happy.
Enter Chris. A misguided kid who runs away from home, joins the circus and never contacts his mother. Ron and Joy take him in like a son, give him a home and teach him a lucrative job skill working with tigers. I can’t help thinking he had a sexual relationship with Ron and Joy not out of love but sheer gratitude. Even the group photos of them look like a family portrait of father, mother and son. I am not saying three people of varying genders and ages can’t fall in love but Chris seemed too financially dependent and emotionally ‘messed up’ to really know what he was doing in this menage a trois.
I think Joy’s depression had to do with his loss but also guilt about exploiting Chris’s weakness because her career and her marriage were dead. Yes, she had fun as a dancer but she was married to a man who worshipped her beauty and their life together but that is as deep as their connection went and that isn’t true love. They had no children except for ‘adopting’ Chris but Chris was also her and her husband’s lover. And with the costs of maintaining the tigers, it didn’t look they could keep their home or even their beloved pets. I think she wanted to die because the truth of it all was just too much to bear and it was too late to change it.
Unlike some comments on this site, I am not surprised Ron didn’t throw in the towel after Chris and Joy’s death. I am not surprised he sold the ranch and even euthanized the two tigers when evicted from the sanctuary. I would not be surprised if he is at the monastery or Vegas or anywhere. Not because Ron is a bad person, it’s how he goes after what he wants without thinking how it will affect the other person’s development – from the way he seduced Joy and directed her life, seduced Chris and directed his life, brought in the tiger act despite the risks to others. Like the big cats themselves, Ron is a true survivor.
Joe said,
December 24, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Is it just me, or does anybody else think Ron had something to do with both incidents. It seems kind of iffy that the tiger only attacked the two. Maybe it is not accidental.
Jay said,
December 24, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Where is Ron today and what is he doing? Did he go to Thailand as mentioned in the film?
Melissa said,
December 24, 2008 at 8:28 pm
I believe that with training wild animals there is always a risk. Ron and Joy and Chuck knew the risk they were taking training these wild animals and they took it. Wild animals will always be wild animals and Jupiter was a wild animal and he sensed a weakness in Joy and killed her.Jupiter would of done that too a sick animal or a hurt animal in the wild because its in his nature. You can take an animal out of the wild but you can’t take the wild out of the animal. Chuck’s death was an accident he tripped and fell and Jupiter got spooked and lunged for his throat and killed him. Joy’s death was tragic but she shouldn’t have went out there when she was drinking and in the condition she was. Ron’s documentary was touching and it was tragic but Ron made it through all that grief.He may never forget it because that pain will never heal but he’s learned too move on from it and I think he’s a true hero for that.
gina said,
December 25, 2008 at 12:09 am
Just wanted to say Good Luck to Ron, he deserves it all, it was a beautiful story and very sad but everyone believes in what they want. I do think it was just freak accidents, the animals sense something wrong and naturally retaliate in the only way they know how. What I dont understand is why was Joy depressed? Was she truly in love with Chuck and couldnt go on without him all the while poor Ron is doing all he can to bring her out of it? Not to mention she was drinking behind his back, how did he not know? As for this Steve St. Croix character, yeah thats real big of you to tell Ron F U? Why dont you go back to surfing My Space cuz you are obviously not old enough to know what respect is!
Mel said,
December 25, 2008 at 1:08 am
Lina
- His name was Chuck, not Chris.
moose said,
December 25, 2008 at 2:31 am
Jupiter and Shercon were litter mates so it is possible he faced pressure to put him down for that reason. No one can say what the true reasons and nature of their relationship and feelings were because none of us were there or a part of their lives. Everything you think is speculation or your own biased view stemming from your own personal beliefs whether it be from a political or religious standpoint.
Shad said,
December 27, 2008 at 1:00 am
Well Im sorry i dont have same sentiment as everyone here. I watched this story and i find it really odd that jupiter always go crazy and attacks everyone but Ron. These cats where trained by Ron and I’m pretty sure if asked to attack by Ron these cats would oblige.
CC said,
December 27, 2008 at 4:03 am
How did he not know that she had twice the legal amount of alcohol in her system the night she was killed? That would give off an odor right?? No matter the drink of choice, twice the legal limit is going to make your breath smell like liquor…strange circumstances. Tragic. Sad.
Cat said,
December 27, 2008 at 8:22 am
Everyone deserves to be respected, especially post mortem. They ALL took the risk of being hurt or dying when they accepted this 24-hour job as their life. No matter whether you agree with their lifestyle, which I’m fairly sure affects absolutely no one posting negative comments about it on here, or not it is obvious that they all cared for eachother. The documentary showed the relationships between the animals and the trainers so beautifully. Personally, I found Ron to be driven and EXTREMELY genuine. Seeing his raw pain was gut wrenching. Though at first I found myself asking “what do I have in common with this man?” and then “why am I affected so strongly by his loss and sadness?” I realized I felt such a strong connection to him because he was mourning lost loves, and unfortunately we all can relate to his pain.
I want to thank Ron profusely for being so brave, for sharing his sad story and raw emotion with the world, and for keeping his head up as best he can despite such terrible circumstances. We all need to be reminded that we’re all human, and that there are a myriad of relationships in life that affect us. God bless him wherever he is today.
nickr said,
December 29, 2008 at 1:33 am
What really surprises me is that there is still an audience for this kind of “performance”. I can understand why a few people looking for purpose in their life might make the selfish mistake of “training” animals with food to do repetitive tasks in front of a “Vegas” or circus type audience, but I can’t understand how large numbers of people tolerate this travesty of animal rights and pay to see it. Wild animals should be protected in their natural environment from poachers and others who would exploit them for personal gain, and that means animal trainers specifically. In 20 or 30 years this nonsense will end because all people will become aware of how wrong it is, or it will end when all of the wild animals are gone; so sad.
Sheryl said,
December 29, 2008 at 2:18 am
I turned on this show quite by accident tonight – and couldn’t stop watching it. I caught it in the middle and will rewatch it later tonight from the beginning.
However, from what I saw, I couldn’t agree with Lina’s (above comment) assessement any better, had I written it myself.
I guess I’m the lone opinion, but Ron seems to be a controlling, manipulative type person under the guise of sensitivity and hurt. It still spooks me that anyone in their right mind, let alone an experienced animal trainer, would take a drunk, depressed, 89 lb. woman into an animal compound, urging her to feed a wild tiger.
I am sorry but the relationship between these people and their animals was sick and very disturbing. Animals are not people. Wild animals belong in the wild, period. As for the other stuff, well I am religious as well and take my moral code from the Bible, so you can fill in the blanks.
That said, this HBO special was so compelling, I simply have to watch it from the beginning later tonight.
I find 99% of the comments here to be intelligent and very thought provoking. Thanks! Great blog. Sheryl
Lisa Kimbell said,
December 29, 2008 at 2:51 am
Dear Cat,
I wasn’t going to respond and then I read your comment. How beautifully written; you conveyed your feelings about Ron and why you shared his grief so strongly. It was heartbreaking, truly heartbreaking. I wish I knew where Ron was, I know this sounds a little dramatic, but I wanted to just hold him for hours and shelter him from the world of devestating pain he was in. Wherever he is I am praying that God blesses him and gives him the strength to find love again in Thailand…a love of Tigers, land and human beings. I hope the love that he recieves is beautiful and abundant.
He deserves to be happy again and find peace. I too hope that he can forgive himself and move on. In my opinion these animals were much happier in their FL habitat. They didn’t have to hunt, starve, be hunted or die of disease. They had food, shelter, love, affection, protection, did I mention LOVE? They didn’t have to die alone, but in the arms of someone who loved them unconditionally and deeply. I wish most of us could pass that way. In the arms of the one who loved me the most…and just go to sleep.
Ron, where ever you are I hope that you know how many people were moved by your story and how many of us have prayed for you. I wish I could have met you, Joy, Chuck and the cats, or at least seen your show. For me…that is a life that only lives in fairytales and dreams.
steffie said,
December 29, 2008 at 2:56 am
I must add my 2 cents. I was on my way to cut my grass but I was captivated by the ‘Cat Dancer’ story. I could tell that something really bad was going to happen to Chuck and Joy. Joy’s ending sounds really really strange. She hadn’t eaten but she was drinking, heavily. The details are quite sketchy at this point in the story.
johnp said,
December 29, 2008 at 4:48 am
cat eats but-dinker. big deal!
Tj said,
December 29, 2008 at 6:21 am
Anyone heard of Shambala? Tippi Hendren’s wild animal reserve north of Los Angeles. I bet she wld have found a way to take in those two cats. Her reserve is far better then what those two animals were confined in. Also no ones mentioned how odd that it was also a white tiger that attacked ( but did’nt kill ) Roy Horn of Siegfried and Roy. In breeding?
Has anyone read the book: Cat Dancers
by Ron Holiday (Author), Joy Holiday (Author), Judy Ellis (Author) ? Wld like to hear comments on that.
Mary said,
December 29, 2008 at 6:41 am
Why didn’t they put the cat down after he killed Chuck?
Kim said,
December 29, 2008 at 7:44 am
I came across the documentary tonight by accident and I was in complete disbelief. I understood the love they had for these animals and at the same time I hated their confinement for stardom. It was hard for me to process putting them down. It was horrifically tragic all the way around. The pain this man has endured was truly, truly disturbing. The loss so great.
Samantha said,
December 29, 2008 at 11:56 am
okay, they didn’t put Jupiter down after chuck because they made a promise to take care of the animals no matter what, and Jupiter thought chuck was one of the workers, also he put the other two cats down at the end because they were old and he didn’t want them to suffer in some compound, and he couldn’t afford to put them any where else. And they all made a promise to take the best care of them if they died so it wouldn’t be very kind if he would of gave them a way to a family they didn’t know. And if you have ON DEMAND you can still catch the doc. Oh and roy didnt die because the tiger wasn’t trying to hurt him, he fell during the act and Montecore the white tiger was attempting to drag him to safety, as a mother tigress would pull one of her cubs by the neck, resulting in his injures,If Montecore wanted to kill roy, he’d be dead just like Chuck and Joy.
Samantha said,
December 29, 2008 at 12:11 pm
OH and P.S. Joy had a death wish, she wanted to die, it seemed as if she were asking for that to happen to her, poor roy , how could she want to leave him alone like that, but im not judging she jus couldn’t cope with the loss :(. But tigers are very observant, and it was clear joy hated Jupiter, and she came out to see the cats drunk and out of her mind when she got killed, Very sad, but insightful and beautiful as well. ill shut up now
A Cat Lover said,
December 29, 2008 at 7:34 pm
I watched this on On Demand last nite. It was so bizarre. A few things I would point out:
1. How did Joy get the booze?
2. Thailand….?? the home of anything goes sex…especially with children…hmmmmm.
3. Are all white tigers inbred? If so, didn’t one of Ron’s cats have 2 white cubs? Were they the result of inbreeding?
I was fascinated by the show.
Phyllis said,
December 29, 2008 at 9:48 pm
Of course he killed them both. How obvious can you get. He was there with her all day and didn’t notice she was getting dog drunk. He had the cat kill them both because he was jealous of chuck. Ron belongs in jail he got by with murdering 2 people. Can’t believe there were no questions about how these 2 were really killed at the time.
Christine H said,
December 29, 2008 at 11:37 pm
The last 30 minutes said it all…Ron knew all about wild cats and their tendencies…but gee…released the most unstable when construction workers were at the gate…and construction material everywhere…and oops Chuck tripped? I don’t raise wild cats, but know that they become sketchy when their handlers are nervous or unsure…and in unfamiliar circumstances? Train wreck waiting to happen. So Chuck could have been an accident..but Joy…NO WAY. Ron knew what would happen if he released the white tiger…he counted on it. And, it worked.
I am with Phyllis on this…why didn’t anyone get that this was intentional? Chuck’s mom made hints to the fact…she knew.
GuySmalley said,
December 30, 2008 at 4:48 am
I just don’t get how you take a weak 80 lb Joy to a cat that just 5 weeks killed a family member. something doesn’t seem right
slimslaby said,
December 30, 2008 at 6:37 am
I am amazed at how so few people were left thinking – were these actually accidents ?
Isn’t it odd that the only witness to both accidents were Ron and Jupiter ?
Isn’t it odd that Ron would let Joy into the cage in here compromised state – drunk, shaking, and seemingly described as prey-like.
I mean, he’s supposed to be an expert. So much of an expert that he was able to give you reasons why this happened – she was shaking, she was drunk, she was looking weak. Why as an expert did he not realize that maybe she would be in danger in a cage with a tiger that just killed someone just weeks earlier ??
maybe he knew exactly what to expect, no ?
Chuck, Joy, Ron. Love Triangle. Jealousy ? How did Ron feel after Joy felt as if she couldn’t live on without Chuck ? Hmmmmmm.
Maybe there is a bit more that we don’t know about this love triangle. Unfortunately, 2 of them are dead and now it’s very easy for Ron to say how much in Love they all were.
My take on it is that Ron got away with murder… twice. Why doesn’t another big cat trainer step up and question why Ron would allow joy in that cage ? Is there a big cat trainer out there that can see that as a safety first move ?
Gary said,
December 30, 2008 at 11:28 am
I really like the comment left by ‘chris’ on Dec 20th, he said he had a picture of Jupiter with his hat on him. You worked with them in 93?? When Jupiter killed Chuck he was only 3 and a 1/2 years old. I guess you had a picture of Jupiter with your hat on him before he was born… Cool. But your comment was inspiring, yet false most likely.
Ron Guay and Doris Guay (her real name) are really unique people, I did some computer work for them back in 1988-89 when I worked for a small PC store in Gainesville, Florida. I installed their first 286 PC (Wow… Hi-tech back then) Doris kept their books on it using a DOS based shareware software package. She was always upset when the SW didn’t work correctly, and I think it draws an odd parallel – in that this was a couple that worked in the “big time” but was always on the bleeding edge of small-time thinking.
Their story is tragic, and I feel for Ron, he was always a genuinly passionate man, but it is tragic in the sort of “oh look, the guy jumping the motorcycle over the cars crashed and broke his neck” kind of way.
If you dangle your feet in the fire of the unknown, and leave them there long enough without the proper training, equipment, and expertise, eventually you will get burned. Actually, anyone who dares danger to come and bite them in the arse will eventually get what they desire.
Do I pity them, yes, to an extent. Am I envious of their daring, yes, also, to an extent. Am I surprised that someone got chomped by an in-bred cat – not no but hell no…
I choose to remember Doris as the soft spoken woman who would cuss out her PC like a sailor at a moments notice… Now that is funny no matter who you are!! She was real, and tragic, really tragic, and yet also larger than life at times… But you can bet that she lived life to the fullest, and for that I am jealous most of all.
I dont have a picture of Doris with my cap on her (ode to ‘chris’) but I do have some really unique memories of the Cat Dancer ranch in Alachua Florida (ala, Ron Guay liked to walk around sparsely dressed much of the time in the house… OK that was TMI)
Too bad for the cats at the end, Mr. Guay I only hope that whomever has your life in their hands will treat you better than you treated your 2 cats, but then again, lack of vanity is one thing you certainly never had.
But – your checks never bounced for my PC work either!! Go in peace…
Brandee said,
December 30, 2008 at 1:35 pm
I just watched “Cat Dancers”. It is a very sad, yet breathtaking view of the life of these three souls who dedicated their lives to their animals. The ending had me in tears. The heartbreaking deaths of Joy and Chuck bring the fact that it can all end in one single second. I can plainly see the love that these three had for their animals and for each other. To watch this documentary is to understand how dangerous Cat, not just cats but any undomesticated animal can be. I don’t believe Ron had anything to do with the deaths of Chuck and Joy. I must say that anytime an animal of the magnitude attacks and kills anyone, the animal must be separated and must not be let lose in such a way that they can attack another person. It is in this way only that I think that Ron was in err. The white tiger should not have been let out of its cage where it could kill Joy. It is obvious that the cause of the deaths of Chuck and Joy was carelessness. Not just Ron’s carelessness but a collective carelessness of everyone who worked there. Once again human carelessness ends in both animal and human pain and death.
JOAN M. said,
December 30, 2008 at 1:39 pm
JUST FINISHED WATCHING “CAT DANCERS”. OH MY GOD, WHAT HAS GOTTEN INTO THE HUMAN RACE?? THE LOVE FOR THE ANIMALS IS ONE THING; BUT THESE PEOPLE WENT TOO FAR. THE DEATHS OF THE TWO INDIVIDUALS IS KIND OF “FISHY”. AND THEN TO HAVE THE TIGERS PUT TO DEATH IS CRUEL. THERE ARE OTHER WAYS OF DEALING WITH THEM. WHAT ABOUT TIPPI HENDREN’S PLACE? I’M SURE RON COULD HAVE FOUND SOMEPLACE TO PUT THESE POOR TIGERS.
Valerie S. said,
December 30, 2008 at 2:07 pm
I can’t believe the cynicism of those who said Ron killed Chuck and Joy. It is so obvious he loved them and this was an accident. The worst he can be accused of is stupidity in not forseeing a potentially dangerous situation, but I can see how they would get complacent with these cats who were like their children. And I am a card carrying member of PETA, but to vilify these three for having cats is really missing the fact that they had a magical, loving relationship with these animals, something that transcended the usual boundaries between such different species. They loved the cats and the cats loved them – you can see it in their faces. And it’s not like they took wild cats out of Africa – their first one was from William Holden who had an animal sanctuary where they rescued animals. There are plenty of things to rant and rage about – tens of millions of cats and dogs tortured and killed in China every year for their fur, some of them skinned alive, billions of animals tortured and killed for food after they have lived brief lives in horrendous conditions, elephants in Africa killed for their tusks, etc. etc, but the Cat Dancers are not one of them. There are some who say that people should not have any kind of pet, that that is not natural, but I have had wonderful, loving relationships with animals that were closer than I have had to most humans, and my life has been richer for it, and I think my pets would say the same thing if they could talk.
mark said,
December 30, 2008 at 4:15 pm
PLEASE… he was more than careless, he was calculating and committed premeditated murder. come on now………
luke said,
December 30, 2008 at 4:17 pm
FISHY ????????? WAY MORE THAN JUST FISHY. OBVIOUS
MARK said,
December 30, 2008 at 4:24 pm
HE COMMITTED PREMEDITATED, MURDER. HE CALCULATED EXACTLY HOW TO GET BY WITH IT AND HE DID. ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME DOCUMENTARY BECAUSE THAT CAME ACROSS TO ME IN FLYING COLORS. IT COULDN’T HAVE BEEN MORE CLEAR IF HE HAD SAID HE MURDERED THEM. I AGREE FORGET FISHY, IT OBVIOUS.
Nick Plowman said,
December 30, 2008 at 4:43 pm
You know, I seriously forgot about this doc, and I didn’t come to half the conclusions that y’all seem to, but it is truly enlightening I must say.
BILL said,
December 30, 2008 at 5:38 pm
HE’S VERY CREEPY, PERVERTED AND SPOOKY. ALSO VERY CLEVER HE DID GET AWAY WITH IT DIDN’T HE?
Starlite said,
December 30, 2008 at 7:08 pm
I wasn’t going to comment but after reading some of the above comments…I just have to.
I agree that there are holes in Ron’s story. Especially the part about Joy’s death. I can’t imagine that taking a sick and weakend intoxicated woman into a tigers cage is not without blame.
I know that If I were Joy…I would have wanted to go the very same way.
Walk a mile in someone elses shoes…..
Ron said,
December 30, 2008 at 9:08 pm
That’s weird. Why would someone want to have their throat ripped out by a wild animal. I can think of a million better ways to be killed than that.
Shelia said,
December 30, 2008 at 10:51 pm
Ron what do you mean. Her lover was killed that way and if she wanted to die don’t you think a person losing there lover would want to go the same way?
z said,
December 31, 2008 at 12:02 am
Maybe some of you should wacth it again. I enjoyed the Doc on the Cat Dancers it was a breath of fresh air and different. What Ron , Joy and Chuck had was trust and thats a beautiful thing Ron even mentions trust in their relationship an understanding of Human Nurturing. And yes Ron talked about killing himself and how selfish it was to think because of the animals he knew he had to take care of them and to me that takes more strength and will to move on knowing everyone you loved was gone. I have no pity for people who choose the easy way out.
Christine H said,
December 31, 2008 at 12:18 am
Facts in this story are, wild animals become unstable when their handlers are nervous or circumstances aren’t normal. Inbred animals are even more unpredictable. There was no need for Ron to move Jupiter from the one cage to another area the day Chuck was killed. When Joy came out to see her babies, Ron could have limited her visit to only the ones he knew were safe..but he let Jupiter out 2nd….or at all for that matter?
All it takes is a blubbering Ron…crying and saying how much he loved Chuck and Joy for some people to believe him and feel sorry for him…what about the 2 people who can’t speak and say what/how things happened? Don’t they deserve your sympathy? Actions speak louder than words. His actions were SHOUTING and some people are only going to hear what he says. Sad.
Tiger said,
December 31, 2008 at 1:17 am
I’m annoyed that viewers would utter the words premeditated murder. In Ron’s defense what in the name of Jupiter would this man gain ? Money, Fame, he had this. Here’s an unfortunate account of three life’s that ended in ONE. But to utter murder, give me a break. All three were in a dangerous business, 24/7 365 days a year with WILD CATS. There is no way to predicted the demeanor of a wild cat regardless of how much it was trained. A dog is a domestic animal and still can turn on you at any given time.
It was Jupiter who killed Chuck and Joy not Ron.
Human life is taken every minute of the day from accidents,murders, suicides, diseases, hunger and war. Where’s the front page headline on these, that we as a Human Race can CHANGE.
Leave Ron alone he has suffered enough don’t you think?
Lazlo Von Lonso said,
December 31, 2008 at 1:21 am
Kelli…I agree with you Ron is holding a smoking gun. He killed Joy and Chuck using Jupiter as a weapon. Sad but interesting documentary. Someone else in this thread ask the question as to why wasn’t Jupiter put down after killing Chuck ?! And Joy was drunk ? Too weird, so was Ron’s wig.
Joy looked pretty old but very fit, I can’t find any info on her age. Ron appeared nice but sort of gay. Tragic story…and wig.
LVL
Laura said,
December 31, 2008 at 2:08 am
What a mesmerizing and sad story. I am just such an avid cat lover. I took to the story like glue. Like an idiot I didn’t tape it. I hope to find it again. So sad to have to take down Shurcan, and the others at the end. It’s a shame he couldn’t have placed them somewhere. As to the “weirdness”, aren’t we all in some way? We are all unique. And to have had such a wonderful life….God bless you Ron Holiday, wherever you are, and I am hoping that is Thailand!!
Tim said,
December 31, 2008 at 2:13 am
I’ve watched the Doc twice now and because it was so well produced, (music and editing) I believe the story was told the way Ron perceived living it. With nothing other than Love as a backdrop, and a rich and full life driving the foreground.
Some of these comments above are EXACTLY why Ron made the statement “This Human Race, or whatever you want to call it!” People still believe animals are beneath humans, and co-existence doesn’t belong between the two other than domineering a subservient pet. Looking for conspiracies, hating any or all of them, and murder cover ups is just crap. And for this reason i have no doubt Ron isn’t listening or reading any of this. He’s suffered enough. They all have.
Of course, Anyone in the entertainment industry (as i am) has to deal with a bit of confidence, (arrogance) and acting. I DO NOT believe Ron was trying to preach or act. I think he knows how to express his feelings, where a lot of you would just say F U….. Well spoken for an idiot.
Concerning Jupiter, I also know about loving an animal or mate so much that if they did kill out of instinct or mistake……. i wouldn’t want to put them to sleep. I would still love them with all my heart. Unconditional love is a rare and precious thing. And if you have never received it, you don’t know what he’s going through.
Heart wrenching, and thought provoking Doc and i hope some of you can experience the Love Ron had a chance to feel.
Leslie said,
December 31, 2008 at 3:07 am
To open up your heart as Ron did comments are surely to follow. I thought the documentary was wonderful,sad and above all very human. No matter where Ron’s life takes him I hope it’s full of happiness and peace.
slimslaby said,
December 31, 2008 at 3:36 am
“I’m annoyed that viewers would utter the words premeditated murder. In Ron’s defense what in the name of Jupiter would this man gain ?”
Maybe it was about what he couldn’t gain – Joy. Joy didn’t feel as if she could go on without Chuck. Do you realize that all anyone knows about this love triangle came from Ron’s mouth ? — after both were dead.
“But to utter murder, give me a break. All three were in a dangerous business, 24/7 365 days a year with WILD CATS. ”
Isn’t that the point. Ron worked with cats every day and even gave us several reasons why this happened. Why did he not realize these things “Before” he let Joy near this cat ? But what we didn’t hear was – “If I had only did something differently” or “I knew this was a bad situation, but ”
– isn’t that odd ? Is it just me ?
“It was Jupiter who killed Chuck and Joy not Ron.”
That’s a given. But say you let a young child in a cage with a hungry Tiger ? Who makes that decision ? Jupiter does what a Tiger does – Ron… on the other hand, made a decision to let a weak and shaky Joy into a cage with a Tiger — to feed him no less ?!?!??
I respect those of you who believe Ron’s story, but seriously – are these not logical questions to ask ?
Why was Jupiter ever out of his cage while workers were on the grounds ??
Either it was very poor judgement in both cases by Ron, or he knew exactly what he was doing. For some reason, I didn’t ever hear him say that he made a mistake – he just gave us reasons why Jupiter killed them.
Just because these people were around cats all the time, only means that they should be more aware of potentially dangerous situations. no ?
Susan said,
December 31, 2008 at 7:02 am
Hi everyone,
I have not watched the show yet and don’t know if I will. See, I knew Chuck a long time ago before he got involved with the circus and then Ron and Joy. He was the nicest, friendliest guy I had ever met. We worked together at a small town amusement park and he was the sound guy for entertainment. He always had a smile for me and a warm, friendly hug. I refuse to see him in any other light or way. It makes me really sad to know that I will never see him again or talk to him again. He deserved a long life with love and happiness. I sure hope he is resting in peace.
joey spilt said,
December 31, 2008 at 8:25 am
very complicated story. seriously. did he premeditate, did he assist, or none of the above? she didnt want to live anymore. he said a line, she was about to go into the hospital for IV, and she nor he wanted that, and the day before going to hospital he brought her to the cats to see them, get her inspired again to live. very complicated. was he jealous of the younger man, and tripped him up after an all night “computer session”. was it simply an accident that triggered another more fatalistic one. or did he really loose everything. unbelievable loss in my book. his wife, his lover, all his cats. do we not feel sympathy for this man? and what about his statement, suicide is not possible because who would care for the cats, they all had a pact. now the cats are all gone, no? so shouldnt we focus some worry on Ron. this is a greek tragedy and yes it was a slow train wreck from the moment i saw the black panther introduced into the act. i wanted to look away. but fuk it i didnt and now i feel shitty
RISKY BUSINESS said,
December 31, 2008 at 10:34 am
They have nothing on GRISLY MAN (MEAL) Tim Treadwell
RISKY BUSINESS said,
December 31, 2008 at 10:44 am
To all the people thinking Ron planned this,
think about Ziggy and Roy,
they had the same problem with the SAME kind of cat (TIGER)!
People that play with fire or TIGERS get burnt or bit sooner or later.
RISKY BUSINESS said,
December 31, 2008 at 11:26 am
Ron should put the rug on his head to sleep too!
That was scarier than the tiger attacks!
Anonymous said,
December 31, 2008 at 4:54 pm
Ziggy and Roy ? Was Roy intoxicated, 89 lbs, shaking like a leaf, and feeding a tiger ? If there is one thing I cannot get past, it’s that he would let her in that cage in that condition. Doesn’t the fact that she was ready to go to the hospital say anything about how weak she was ?
This in no way correlates with Roy. Isn’t there a cat trainer out there who can step up and say — “Hey, there is no way I would have let someone into the cage in that condition.” Ziggy — what is your take on Ron’s decision to let her in the cage ?
Christine H said,
December 31, 2008 at 9:36 pm
Roy was on stage being watched by hundreds when the accident occured…His was a job hazard, a chance he took everytime he went on stage.
Chuck and Joy were killed in the privacy of their compound. With Ron being the instrument in releasing/moving Jupiter from the cage. In both cases, there was no need for Ron to move/release the cat. Funny how Ron built up the back stories on both deaths so well…Chuck up all night on the computer made him clumsy, Joy, weak and drunk…both situations making those individuals potential prey to an unstable wild animal. Anyone raising a pack of dogs (3+) knows full well when one of the pack is weakened the others attack immediately. It is instinctual. Ron knew all of this when he CHOSE to move/release Jupiter. He didn’t just learn it through these mistakes….That is why it makes both of these “accidents” not so accidental.
jacky said,
January 1, 2009 at 8:35 am
For the people judging Ron, is your life that empty? I wish I too was a perfect person like you haters.
Though I do not agree with animals being trained for human entertainment, I do feel the animals and Joy and Chuck were all loved by Ron. Joy and Chuck were with the animals just as much as Ron, I doubt he trained the animals to attack them.
Why would you want to waste so much energy on being cruel and hurtful?
Bob said,
January 2, 2009 at 9:15 pm
you can try to sugar coat this guy all you want but look at his story. he knew what he was doing. this is a story for city confidential once the truth is found. maybe cold case files could help with finding the real story. never seen anything so obvious. and it’s not judging someone when they give you the circumstances themselves. i agree with above his guilt couldn’t be more obvious if he had just come out and said himself that he killed them.
Lewis said,
January 2, 2009 at 9:20 pm
Completely agree. Watched this thing three times to try and feel some sympathy for Ron. But the only sympathy i have is for the 2 poor people who he murdered and yes it is painfully obvious whether you like it or not.
POLLY said,
January 2, 2009 at 10:11 pm
I can’t believe this story wasn’t investigated by law enforcement at the time of the murders. It truly is more obvious even than most city confidential true stories. Is ther anyway to read articles about when this happened and why there was not an investigation. just take rons word for it. That’s crazy
JOHN said,
January 3, 2009 at 8:15 am
ARTICLE ABOVE SAID HE WAS LEFT WITH JUST 2 CATS? (COULD HAVE SHOWED WICH ONES) BUT STORY SAYS THEY WERE ALL DESTROYED? AND LIKE A GUY ABOVE SAID HE WAS SUPPOSSED TO TAKE CARE OF THEM TILL THERE DEATH?? PUTTING THEM DOWN IS TILL THERE DEATH?? COULDNT GIVE TO A ZOO???
;
Rob said,
January 3, 2009 at 8:17 am
Get real folks – we’re all so self absorbed to think that these animals (especially cats) love and adore us… first time Chuck showed up without some kibbles and bits in his hand the cat went for his throat, and shocker, same thing happened with Joy.
mariah said,
January 3, 2009 at 8:18 am
me and my mom watched this together…and yes it was very sad, but there is one thing that really puzzled me. why would ron bring the cat that killed chick to go see joy? i would think that she wouldnt even want to see that cat.
if ron would have kept the cat in his cage, she would still be alive…
♥RIP Chuck & Joy♥
Ken said,
January 3, 2009 at 8:26 am
Anyone check if there were life insurance policies on Chuck and Joy ?
Burgin said,
January 3, 2009 at 8:37 am
I think one comment that was very telling which none of you have mentioned is Ron’s statement about two kinds of people who commit suicide. Crazy or “he then mentioned Dr. K”.
I believe Joy chose to commit suicide with Ron’s help, including getting liquor to her so she could better face her death, I guess in some sort of romantic way, from the same way in which Chuck had met his end.
I think Ron’s pain is real and I will not judge him.
kimi said,
January 3, 2009 at 8:40 am
I cried my eyes out tonight. I was on the edge of my seat praying for things not to turn out the way that it did. I understand all the hard feelings. I hope Ron finishes up his life in all the years to come helping people understand animals better. He owes that to the memory of his human loves and his animal loves who are now deceased.
Ron! What exactly happened to midnight and the other cats featured in the story? What about the dogs and bird? They were all still alive and healthy after the accidents?
bs said,
January 3, 2009 at 8:43 am
Oh wow, what a terribly sad story. I sure hate that a bunch of circus freaks died while forcing animals to do things against their will. Too bad the old whiskey drinking whore fell into a pile of meat and was eaten by the inbred carnivore.
ok- like others have said. we didn’t plan to watch this, but once it started, couldn’t stop.I want to know how I enroll in the class that Ron teaches about tiger penis soup. The cost of the course is not important, can you imagine trying to sit there & listen to his shit without laughing your ass off? It was 2 gay dudes and and old wrinkled ass woman that drank, ran around half naked & had open sex while tigers watched. how normal is that? Goes on in my neighborhood all the time.
ARE YOU PEOPLE READING THIS SHIT???
Now, please make a lot of comments about how closed minded I am. I will be looking forward to your opinions! hahahahahaha
JOHN said,
January 3, 2009 at 10:05 am
WATCHED AGAIN, NOW UNDERSTAND LAST 2 CATS WERE PUT DOWN, BUT WHAT HAPPEND TO THE OTHER CATS HE HAD?? LEOPARDS ETC.??
Neomi said,
January 3, 2009 at 11:15 am
I was crying too.. I live in Vegas, and had to go thru’ the scare w Roy Horn, so it was a lil’ close to home… But it was soo tastefully done, and so beautiful at the same time..
Denise said,
January 3, 2009 at 11:49 am
WOW-
I like most of you could not stop watching this film…Sad, tragic, selfish, gripping, revolting, loving, painful and at the end death…..
Anyone with animals whether it be a cat, dog, horse, tiger know that at any given moment things can change in a heatbeat …at the end of the day they are animals and instinct will always be stronger then training.
I watched Ron’s eyes very carefully — I could not look away …you can not act that pain that I saw- it was raw and unrelenting. You can see he can not believe this is how the dream ended…
To those that have posted hateful, crude, vile posts— this says more about who you are then who they were– may what you put out in the universe come back to you in spades and when it does, and it will , you will know why —
For Ron– may you find peace somewhere on this planet..
Kitty said,
January 3, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Maybe Joy’s death was an assisted suicide, it seems possible. Or maybe Ron and Joy were both drunk when it happened. Ron seemed like a really weird dude who wasn’t that bright and was out of touch with reality. It might’ve been a stupid accident.
I don’t see anything morally wrong with their polygamous relationship. It was obvious that Ron is 100% gay, so it’s not like he and Joy were betraying each other sexually. It is weird, but to each his own. But I do have a problem with their use of wild animals as stage props. It’s exploitation. I don’t think any of them truly loved the animals. Apparently Ron later went to work for an exotic petting zoo? He should be ashamed of himself, he still hasn’t learned a damn thing. Jupiter’s death was the saddest part of the story.
Anonymous said,
January 3, 2009 at 7:45 pm
I held my breath until Jupiter was killed, then I cried and didn’t understand
why that and not the human deaths would be so heart-wrenching. And the pain in Ron’s eyes in the end completed the feelings of abject unrelievable pain. But Joy’s death is tricky… Did Ron assist her in suicide; did she want to die because her “baby” had killed her other child/ lover or did she suspect there was more to Chuck’s accident and couldn’t live with that? That would make sense. But Chuck’s death doesn’t make sense, the circumstances don’t add up and it seems contrived. Then again, life can be karmic in ways that are both obvious and oblique. We can conjecture as observers of this documentary; but could they lead us with visual information to create controversy? Doesn’t that sell? Who can judge another from a film? This blog is what gossip and hearsay are about. And those who judge will be judged. I was made to feel the pain that Ron exhibited. Whatever the reality, Ron made me feel pain and inconsolable
sorrow. The story made me want to comment [ which I have never done before ] so it was a strong visual and emotional film, with animal rights and human frailty at its core. I think Greek Tragedy is alive and well in all our lives and when the elements of a personal story outshine our own stories we get involved because it at once relieves us of our own pain and heightens empathy to another. We are all one in the end, and our perceptions are what distinquishes us. I have animals, rescues mostly, and some will outlive me, the responsibility is relentless, the love is rewarding. But we all have a responsibility to each other too. Whatever the case, Ron has to live with himself [ as we all do ], God help us all be brave.
DM said,
January 4, 2009 at 12:24 am
Once Joy’s heart was broken by the murder of Chuck due to the trickery of Ron. Joy began to drink and not eat to punish Ron. Joy no longer wanted to live. Ron had hoped with Chuck out of the picture he would then get the love and control back he once enjoyed with Joy.
Shortly after Chuck joined the act, Joy fell madly in love with Chuck and soon began to resent Ron. So after many years of no incidents or accidents along with Ron’s bizarre take on reality and fear of being accused by Joy of murder, Ron killed Joy using the same cat. Due to the location, no witnesses and Ron’s level of detail, both murders were instead ruled as accidents. Ron is a murderer, he just couldn’t take that he was no longer in charge of Joy, the 3 way and was not the star on stage or in bed- he showed everyone he is still in charge. Ron had to have everything his way from the beginning.
Kimberly said,
January 4, 2009 at 1:36 am
When Ron talked about how he didn’t want to think about how horribly his dream had ended, I had a feeling I was going to be watching a story about a cat doing someone in.
I do not like to see any wild animals used for our amusement period. I believe any thoughts that these animals are “happy” performing or living in a safe enviornment, a/k/a cage or fenced yard, are selfish justification. If a wild animal is hurt, let’s help it. If they are endangered, let’s protect them. Otherwise, leave them be.
D said,
January 4, 2009 at 2:49 am
I wasn’t going to comment..but come on Steven St. Croix comments were a lil harsh.Did you have some type of personal relationship knowing them or Roy that makes you use such harsh words! Not just you though, some people can go a little overboard with being mean and rude.
We came across the documentary by accident..and couldn’t turn away.These people were not the first and only people to ever work with wild or exotic animals, so give them a break. They’re not freaks. And their job was what was exciting entertainment at the time, so no, it’s not what you would think would be normal now. And I think they had a damn good thing going and were working their sexiness!! But, how many of you still to this day take your kids to the circus? So why were they so wrong.
This was a very sad story and it was obvious that Roy is still grieving,depressed and possibly drinking and drowning in his sorrows. But thank you Roy for sharing the good and the bad. I believe Chuck was an accident and Joy..maybe..but I can see were she may have planned and wanted that to happen, since they did not believe in suicide.
The ending also confused me about why the cats had to be put to sleep and what happened to Roy. Roy I hope you have found some peace in Thailand or where ever..away from the lime light. You had a shining career with your partners..be blessed…loved the flashback pictures and video.
P.S. in today’s world..where anything goes and almost everybody’s going the hell with gasoline drawers on because Hollywood says “it’s o.k.”….who cares about the sexual relationship they all had..that’s not the big deal. It worked for them. Nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors ,but they seemed happy and I think Ron was hurt over the downfall of things..but I don’t think he was manipulating and controlling the other two to do this work. It ended up being their life long dream coming true but ending too early and too tragic
slimslaby said,
January 4, 2009 at 6:23 pm
D – Is it possible that you are taking alot of what Ron has said as the complete truth ?
Chuck was gay and in Love with Joy and Ron ? — This is something that is in no way evident from anything in that documentary – except Ron’s words. I see absolutely no affection between the three, and even in their private home videos their is not even a hint of such a thing. Doesn’t mean it wasn’t so, but it also means that it’s possibly a much different story.
What if Chuck wasn’t gay/bi ? Wouldn’t that suddenly create a “motive” ?
Is it possible that both Joy and Chuck were seen more as Ron’s possessions than lovers ? Ron took care of both of them at key points in their lives. I can totally see Chuck being offered more by Ron than he could get in any other job. That would be a very good reason for him to stay. It doesn’t have to be that he was gay – but Ron wants you to believe that.
What if Chuck and Joy were in Love ? How would that change the dynamics of this story ?
catdancerfan said,
January 15, 2009 at 2:19 pm
http://screen.ology.com/2008/12/18/522documentary-review-cat-dancers/
have people read this review and comments?
Russell said,
September 10, 2009 at 10:05 am
The show’s on TV here in Britain soon (not for the first time, I suspect). I’ll probably watch it, but the above review is so badly composed that I’m really none the wiser for reading it. A little more grasp of punctuation, syntax, etc. would go a long way.
Nick Plowman said,
September 10, 2009 at 10:34 am
Thanks Russell. I was 16 when I wrote it, but thanks.
kiri said,
September 16, 2009 at 12:24 am
I saw it this evening. Very moving and sad. The animals were looked after very well. I think some people are very angry and cold. Some of the reviews i’ve read are quite sick. Obviously have nothing better to do.
suspiciouslittlecat said,
September 16, 2009 at 2:55 pm
My wife and I watched this on UK TV last night knowing nothing about it. We saw a promo featuring big cats, and as we love animals, decided to give it a go. I’m glad we did, but we too are very suspicious of Ron. Other people have offered the theory that Ron orchestrated Chuck’s death to “win back” Joy’s attention, then (when Joy went into depression) he killed Joy.
It was interesting that Joy was found to be 2 times over the legal limit when she died, but Ron claims he didn’t know she had been drinking. Come on, TWO TIMES over the limit! Earlier in the docu, Ron admitted that the first time he had sex with Joy, he got her drunk first.
This is in no way a homophobic rant – just a theory about Ron. Here’s a homosexual catholic guy, who has sex with a catholic girl. As a gay catholic guy back in the 50/60s, getting married might have been an appealing cover. To a catholic girl, having been in a sexual relationship with a boyfriend, she would be under pressure to marry him. Perhaps Ron got her drunk to get his way?
Perhaps Joy’s death (murder?) wasn’t the first time Ron used alcohol to lure Joy into a trap.
Last bit of “evidence” (I know none of this is conclusive), why the hell did Ron think that Joy, deep in depression and bereaved as she was, would want to, or be ready to see the animal which killed Chuck? At worst Ron is a murderer, but at the very best he’s got to be pretty darn insensive.
Just my thoughts. Would welcome all opinions.
barbara grant said,
September 17, 2009 at 10:52 pm
Just wonderful and sad, but i loved it
imogen said,
September 19, 2009 at 8:14 pm
I was gripped whilst watching it,and it affected me for a day or two,but reading some of the comments above,I have to say that I agree with those who say the animals shouldn’t have been used like that. Playing with nature is dicing with death, and they found that out the hard way,sadly. Stilll lingering in my mind,though is the song “Lion Tamer”, it’s one of the most beautiful songs I’ve heard.
Anonymous said,
September 21, 2009 at 9:49 pm
When i watched it the first time all i did was cry – it didn’t enter my mind until i watched it for a second time that Ron may have had something to do with the deaths. It is too suspicious and i would be interested to know if there was ever any investigation into all of this
Cat Dancers « Daddy…nightmare… said,
September 24, 2009 at 1:12 am
[...] comments and stills here: fataculture Less than sympathetic review here: [...]
Anonymous said,
September 24, 2009 at 1:27 am
it’s a very sad tale, but it demonstrates the dangers of anthropomrphising lrge and extremely strong wild animals. And the psychology behind bringing a tiger *which has already killed someone* into a room with a sick, frightened woman, with no way of controlling it, is absolutely mind boggling. I can only assume they were not thinking straight due to grief and guilt.
However, well meaning as they were the trainers also seemed extremely ignorant of how white tigers are made. He seemed surprised that the white tiger was inbred. ALL white tigers in the US are inbred to some, usually a very great, degree. The white mutation is unusual, and the genetic lines from which it stems can be traced back to a small handful of specific animals imported into the the US in the 1970s, and I believe to a single individual. Since you need TWO copies of the gene for whiteness, white offspring are impossible without inbreeding at some point, since matings between a white and a normal tiger will produce animals with only one copy, and two of THESE must be bred to make a white cat. White tigers also have unavoidible eyesight issues, and are frequently severely handicapped not only due to inbreeding but to the very nature of the white genetic mutation.
Cheryl said,
October 22, 2009 at 3:40 pm
I lived a few houses down from the Cat Dancers Ranch in Florida almost all of my childhood. Heck as a kid selling door to door fundraising stuff I sold A LOT of wrapping paper to Chuck.
This is a tragedy. The property at the ranch was always very well maintained and beautiful and on a quiet night you could hear the cats. Now……it looks as if a family died there, which is what happened. It’s sad.